| Saturday 26th September 2009 11:12am 1 |
JohnK
39 Posts
|
TIME TO PROTEST AND TAKE ACTION
With Roman Catholicism becoming increasingly rigid, dogmatic and
extreme with regards homosexuality, gender, HIV infections and
child abuse, this is an opportunity to voice your concerns.
Doctrinal postions of 21st Century Roman
Catholicism
1. Doctrine of Death
The pope sentences millions of people to HIV infection and an
early death in African and developing countries with his refusal
to allow the promotion of condom use.
2. Doctrine of Homophobic hatred
The pope continues to incite homophobic hatred by refusing to
with draw his statement that LGBT people are an intrinsically
disordered and moral evil.
3. Doctrine of Misogyny
The pope continues to perpetuate sexism and gender a partite by
refusing to allow women to ascend to the priesthood.
4. Doctrine of Child Abuse
The pope continues to sanction the sexual abuse of children by
refusing to challenge organised paedophile rings in the
priesthood
|
|
| Saturday 26th September 2009 11:28am 2 |
JohnK
39 Posts
|
|
|
| Saturday 26th September 2009 12:00pm 3 |
JohnK
39 Posts
|
News Article - National Secular Society
http://www.secularism.org.uk/protests-p
… visit.html
Protests are already being planned for the visit of the Pope to
Britain next September. The National Secular Society says it will
organise a coalition of groups to make clear to the Pope that
whatever celebrations the Government lays on for him, he is not
welcomed here by everyone.
Terry Sanderson, President of the National Secular Society, said:
“We intend to bring together all those groups that the Pope has
insulted or threatened over the years – gays, women’s groups,
those affected by HIV, those damaged by the Catholic Church’s
cover-up of child abuse. We want to let the pontiff know in no
uncertain terms that his intransigence and fundamentalism are
damaging real people.”
Mr Sanderson said that the rapidly falling attendances at
Catholic masses in Britain indicate that even those born into
Catholicism are fed up with the reactionary teachings of the
Vatican. “Every progressive step that society takes has been
opposed by the Vatican – abortion reform, birth control,
homosexuality, easier divorce, embryonic stem cell research – you
name it, and the Vatican is against it. Why Britain should laud a
man who illegitimately interferes in the politics of democratic
countries and whose Church siphons off huge amounts of money from
wretchedly poor countries, I don’t know.
Mr Sanderson continued: “The horrific Vatican cover up of
large-scale child abuse by priests is enough to invalidate any
state reception for this man. Instead, Britain celebrates and
fetes him. But we will ensure that the other side of the story is
put as the wrong-doing of the Catholic Church is once more,
inexplicably, swept under the red carpet and conveniently
forgotten for the duration”
|
|
| Saturday 26th September 2009 12:05pm 4 |
JohnK
39 Posts
|
|
|
| Saturday 26th September 2009 12:48pm 5 |
Jean-Paul
301 Posts
|
I suggest saving up condoms, and using them as balloons by the
millions; also everybody wearing a white dress and cap; then
there's advertisement space available on the sides of buses where
photos and captions of the survivors of persecuted gays in Nazi
concentration camps could be posted (see Paragraph 175,
the movie).
This man (the pope) is a hate-monger, worships
religion not God, and needs to be seen as Fred Phelps.
Where do I sign? We in the 'colonies' could add our voices to the
protest.
The bottom line is that the RCC's hierarchy is getting on, and
the pews are emptier than Tut's tomb.
Let's not get all emotional now, but just allow me this little
rant. I'll be OK.
|
|
| Saturday 26th September 2009 01:06pm 6 |
Jean-Paul
301 Posts
|
I've tried and tried and tried.............
Only UK citizens can sign the petition. Colonials ain't
qualified.
But and but, we do give the RCC a run for their money around here
in Canada. One parish after the other is shutting down;
less and less clergy while the remaining parishes are overwhelmed
with new parishoners coming from demolished and closed
churches;
too many new activities in too few church basements,
overcrowding, unexpected personality conflicts;
lack of catechism volunteer teachers;
a massive wave of white hair in the pews, where are the
childen;
depending on Knights of Columbus for everything while almost all
of them would rather spend the few remaining years of their lives
in peace and tranquility, while one or two will die under the
weight of demanding and stupid pastors who would rather play
tennis than answer the phone;
discontented bishops and priests about the return of private
confession;
every catholic is ashamed of Ratzy, ashamed, but pretending to
have no knowledge of one pontifical blunder after another;
these are the facts....need I say more???
|
|
| Saturday 26th September 2009 11:01pm 7 |
Jean-Paul
301 Posts
|
Pope to visit Britain – but not everyone is pleased
The news that the reactionary head of the Catholic Church, Joseph
Ratzinger, is to be accorded a state visit to Britain next
September was greeted with dismay by the National Secular Society
this week.
The Pope will meet the Queen and speak in both Houses of
Parliament. The whole visit will have the full panoply of a
visiting head of state, although the Vatican has only a few
hundred (all-male) inhabitants.
Terry Sanderson, President of the National Secular Society,
said:
“This is dismal news indeed. Why Britain should seek to laud such
a nasty extremist is beyond me.
We should not forget that his ‘teachings’ have resulted in the
banning of condoms in developing countries where HIV is
decimating the populations.
He encourages population growth in places where starvation is
common.
He persecutes homosexuals, treats women as second class citizens,
has colluded in the large-scale cover up of child abuse.
His Church interferes illegitimately in politics and undermines
democracy. It siphons huge amounts of money out of
poverty-stricken economies – what is there to celebrate about
such a bigot?
The NSS will be joining other groups in protesting against the
celebration of this ghastly man’s presence here.”
The Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association is planning to
picket the Labour Party Conference in Brighton next week in
protest at Gordon Brown’s invitation to the pope. If you’d like
to join them, they can be contacted through their website
|
|
| Sunday 27th September 2009 01:12am 8 |
AdrianT
35 Posts
|
Yes, I'll be protesting against that for sure
|
|
| Monday 28th September 2009 06:17am 9 |
Jean-Paul
301 Posts
|
Dear Dignity Canada Dignité,
Thank you for this. And what a lovely photo of his
hollowness...I mean holiness without his usual
mustard-yellow base make-up.
It seems to me, however, that this story could have been
more complete and relevant if the fact that the new
President of the UN, a Moslem named Teski, I believe, was
recently quoted by Reuters as saying that homosexuality and
equality for homosexuals was "unaccepatable".
Again, when this story broke in England's international gay
newspaper, Pinknews,
four days
ago, I commented in that on-line paper ( www.pinknews,co.uk) that the LGBT community in
the UK should plan the protest of this puntiff's unwanted
visit to Great Britain by starting to collect condoms and
then filling them with helium by the millions, even the
glow-in-the dark ones, and lining the route of the popal
procession with these beautiful balloons for one of the
greatest loons the RCC has ever seen.
Also, there is advertissement space available on the sides
of public buses in London where photos and captions of the
gay survivors of Nazi concentration camps could be posted
(see the movie Paragraph 175), just to remind the
sadistic and evil representative of some divinty on earth
of his chilhood implication in the irrational and most
destructive national socialism the world has ever seen.
Heil Ratzy!
And lastly, the LGBT community in the UK, more prone to
activism than we apathetic and generally uninformed
Canadian gay catholics, has begun a petition addressed to
Gordon Brown, another ring-wing shithead and leader of the
UK's racist and homophobic BNP, to prevent the
Roman/Teutonic holy bitch from setting foot on British
soil, but unfortunately only citizens of the UK are
permitted access to the website where petitions to 10
Downing Street are posted.
Otherwise, you could be goddamn sure I would have signed
it, and reminded Gordon Brown that his original invitation
to the tassel-bedecked queen of Rome last year was
officially snubbed within a week of his having extended it,
that it took the pretentious intervention of the
black-laced Mrs. Steelhead Thatcher's visit to Batican
City, as well as Tony Blair's plastic conversion to the RCC
because of his catholic wife's constant meddling in
politics to persuade the smiling, humble, con-artist,
hate-mongering and homophobic leader of the corrupt and
dying RCC's violent business enterprise (pastoral theolgy)
to rethink his ignorant refusal, and to be persuaded to
grace the Queen of England and Head of the Anglican Church,
who is eons ahead of the RCC in term of 21st Century
Spirituality, to produce and direct a liturgical comedy on
the proverbial world stage which would bring to light
another important stage of Augustine's insane
interpretation of gawd's divine plan for humanity, or some
such nonsense.
If you get my drift, DignityCanada, unless you have the
balls to tie a pink ribbon aroung a hard-covered edition of
the holy babble and to toss it precisely through the living
room window of cardinal ouelette's luxurious residence, why
don't you take your outdated information and shove it where
the sun don't shine.
But I ain't bitter.
From:
Dignity Canada Dignité
To:
list@dignitycanada.org
Sent: Sunday,
September 27, 2009 7:06:01 PM
Subject: Gay Brits
To Protest Pope's Visit
Gay Brits
Against the Pope
When Pope Benedict XVI visits
Britain next year, at least one group of people won't
be greeting him with open arms.
Posted on
Advocate.com September
23,
2009
By Neal
Broverman
When
Pope Benedict XVI visits Britain next year, at least
one group of people won't be greeting him with open
arms.
The
Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association, a group that
promotes nonviolent resistance to homophobia, is
planning a "strong" protest when the pope touches down
in the United Kingdom in early 2010. Details have yet
to emerge on the pope's trip, which will be Britain's
first papal visit since 1982. The Gay Humanists are not
happy about their Vatican visitor; even before he was
elected pope, Joseph Ratzinger was known to be
vehemently antigay, and he has condemned condom use as
an effective tool against HIV.
"This
pope has shown himself to be paranoid about
homosexuality," said George Broadhead, an official with
the Pink Triangle Trust, a charity affiliated with
GLHA. "His opposition to LGBT rights knows no bounds.
In his Christmas message last year he declared that
saving humanity from homosexual behavior was as
important as saving the rainforest from destruction...
The Vatican reinforced its antigay reputation by
strongly opposing a U.N. declaration calling for an end
to discrimination against gays, and the pope's
Christmas message provided clear evidence of an
obsession about homosexuality which is tantamount to
paranoia."
Broadhead
said it's "imperative" that a strong, clear message is
sent to Pope Benedict XVI, adding that gay groups
protested the 1982 papal visit by Pope John Paul
II.
Dignity Canada Dignité is Canada's organization
of Roman Catholics who are concerned about our
church's sexual theology, particularly as it
pertains to gay, lesbian, bisexual, and
transgendered persons. We work in collaboration
with other Catholic organizations seeking reform
in our church's leadership and
teachings.
You
are subscribed to the Dignity Canada Dignité mailing
list.
To unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
unsubscribe@dignitycanada.org
To
subscribe, send a blank message to subscribe@dignitycanada.org
Comments
to info@dignitycanada.org
|
|
| Monday 28th September 2009 07:15am 10 |
Jean-Paul
301 Posts
|
HEIL ! HEIL ! HEIL !
HEIL ! HEIL ! HEIL !
|
|
| Monday 28th September 2009 10:52pm 11 |
Abi1975
5 Posts
|
Thanks everybody who as signed the petition but we still need
another 400 signatures to get a government response.
|
|
| Tuesday 29th September 2009 07:45am 12 |
Jean-Paul
301 Posts
|
It seems pretty clear to me that Canadians are blocked from the
petition process in the UK.
Still, if you gave us a certain time frame, it may encourage the
others who live there to sign a.s.a.p.
|
|
| Tuesday 29th September 2009 09:29am 13 |
Abi1975
5 Posts
|
Its a government site Jean-Paul we have no control over it!
|
|
| Tuesday 29th September 2009 10:48am 14 |
JohnK
39 Posts
|
Hi Abi1975
Thanks for setting up the petition . . .
Just to say lets keep discussing the popes visit, and try and get
those other signitures as we raise awareness on pinknews and
beyond.
|
|
| Tuesday 29th September 2009 10:19pm 15 |
JohnK
39 Posts
|
Ignore the bells and the smells and the lovely Raphaels, the
Pope's visit to Britain is nothing to celebrate
Gordon Brown is 'delighted', David Cameron is 'delighted'. I am
'repelled'.
Tanya Gold
The Guardian, Tuesday 29 September
2009
Article history
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree
… pope-visit
Save us, O Lord, save us all. Save us from the Pope. Joseph
Ratzinger is coming to Britain. Gordon Brown is "delighted".
David Cameron is "delighted". I am "repelled". Let him come; I
applaud freedom of speech. But no red carpets, please. No
biscuits. No Queen.
In his actions on child abuse and Aids, Joseph Ratzinger has
colluded in the protection of paedophiles and the deaths of
millions of Africans. As Prefect of the Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith (Pope John Paul II's chief enforcer), it
was Ratzinger's job to investigate the child abuse scandal that
plagued the Catholic church for decades. And how did he do it? In
May 2001 he wrote a confidential letter to Catholic bishops,
ordering them not to notify the police – or anyone else – about
the allegations, on pain of excommunication. He referred to a
previous (confidential) Vatican document that ordered that
investigations should be handled "in the most secretive way . . .
restrained by a perpetual silence". Excommunication is a joke to
me, perhaps to you, but to a Catholic it means exclusion and
perhaps hellfire – for trying to protect a child. Well, God is
love.
He also waved aside calls to discipline Marcial Maciel Degollado,
the Mexican founder of the global Legion of Christ movement.
Allegations of child abuse have stalked Maciel since the 1970s.
His victims petitioned Ratzinger, only for his secretary to
inform them the matter was closed. "One can't put on trial such a
close friend of the Pope as Marcial Maciel," Ratzinger said. Two
abuse victims sued him personally for obstruction of justice, but
he claimed diplomatic immunity.
Eventually, when the allegations could no longer be denied,
Ratzinger apologised, and sent Maciel off "to a life of prayer
and penitence". Why not prison? He didn't say. "It is a great
suffering for the church . . . and for me personally," was
Ratzinger's comment about the wider child abuse scandal. Great
suffering? I thought to be raped as a child was great suffering.
To be exposed as complicit in a cover-up is surely merely . . .
embarrassing?
Ratzinger added that he believed the Catholic church had been the
victim of a "planned" media campaign. By whom? By gays? By Jews?
By Jedi? He instructed that prayers be said in perpetuity for the
victims – thanks, I feel better now! – along with a push to
ensure that men "with deep-seated homosexual tendencies" do not
enter the priesthood, thereby turning all responsibility for the
scandal into – the laps of the evil gays!
Ratzinger is also active in the suppression of Liberation
Theology, a Latin American movement that insists that social
justice is the central purpose of Christianity; that good
Catholics should also be political activists who fight for the
rights of the slum-living poor. Ratzinger was repelled, and
dismissed it as "a fundamental threat to the faith of the
Church".
And so to the church's own holocaust – in Africa. Condoms can
protect Africans from Aids. But who can protect them from
Ratzinger? The Catholic church has long pursued a no-condoms
policy. In El Salvador the church got a law passed, ensuring that
condoms were only sold with a warning stating they did not
protect the user from Aids. In Kenya, Cardinal Maurice Otunga
staged public burnings of condoms. The former Archbishop of
Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Mwana a'Nzeki told his flock that
condoms, far from protecting them, contribute to the spread of
the disease. Well, God is love.
Some local priests in Africa counsel contraception, because they
care about their parishioners. But the Vatican, on its Roman
cloud, disagrees. Aids, Ratzinger says, "cannot be overcome
through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the
problems". That is a lie. Not a fantasy, like the virgin birth
and all the other magical, mystical nonsense, but a dangerous
lie. There are, Your Holiness, more than 12 million Aids orphans
in Africa. Twenty-two million Africans have Aids and the UN fears
that eventually 90 million could die.
Ratzinger presides over a church that calls homosexuality "a
deviation, an irregularity, a wound". Catholic reformers have
tried to liberalise this view but Ratzinger slapped them down. In
a 1986 letter, he complained that, "Even within the Church,
[people] are bringing enormous pressure to bear . . . to accept
the homosexual condition as though it were not disordered." He
added that homosexuality is "an intrinsic moral evil".
Care to know the suicide statistics for teenage gays, Your
Holiness? They are four times more likely to attempt suicide than
their heterosexual fellows. In 1998, a 39-year-old gay man called
Alfredo Ormando set fire to himself in St Peter's Square, in
protest at your policies. He died.
Ratzinger is no better on women; he opposes women priests, of
course, and demands the criminilisation of abortion even for
women who have been raped or are very sick; gin and wire
coathangers, anyone? His friend, the theologian Wolfhart
Pannenberg, has said that Ratzinger sees the push for female
priests as driven by "spokeswomen for radical feminists,
especially lesbians".
So this is the man who is coming to lecture us about morality.
Welcome, Benedict XVI, Episcopus Romae, Vicar of Jesus Christ,
Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the
Universal Church, Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City,
Servant of the Servants of God. Don't tread on the corpses.
|
|
| Wednesday 30th September 2009 10:52am 16 |
JohnK
39 Posts
|
|
|
| Thursday 1st October 2009 08:39pm 17 |
JohnK
39 Posts
|
Ruth Gledhill - Popes visit could be marred by child sex abuse
row
Source - Timesonline
http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2009/09/pope-visit-could-be-marred-by-sex-abuse-claims.html
Tomorrow the Holy See will name Bishop Bernard Longley as
the new Archbishop of Birmingham. One of the favourites for
Westminster, and already an auxiliary
there, he will bring true class, wit and style
to what will be a key appointment with the
Newman beatification and the visit of Pope
Benedict XVI pending next year. But he will
need also to be a canny operator. Because the
issues around sex abuse by priests and male and
female religious, of adults and teenagers as
well as children, have not gone away. If
anything, the signs are that they are about to
return with more force than before. For more
background on this issue, see
Catholica.
The Church in England and Wales
is now urging whistleblowers to come
forward with allegations of abuse, as
we reported last week.
But this will go nowhere near satisfying
campaigners such as Keith Porteous Wood, of the
International Humanist and Ethical Union as
well as the better-known National
Secular Society. Speaking on behalf
of the former, he told a recent meeting of the
Human Rights Council that the Vatican had
failed to provide the mandatory reports to the
UN Committee on the Rights of the Child. Its
reports were now fifteen years overdue, he
said, accusing the Church of 'grudgingly'
offering offered just one paragraph on abuse by
priests, in spite of compensation being paid
all over the world running to billions of
dollars.
He said: 'The Vatican’s record on this is truly
shocking. It has shown little remorse for the
suffering inflicted on tens of thousands of
innocent children over the years. In fact, it
has tried very hard to cover up and evade
responsibility. We have called on the
international community to stop pussy-footing
around the Vatican and to hold it to account
for the misery it has inflicted on countless
people. We want the Vatican to be made to face
up to its responsibility and accept its
culpability.'
Monsignor Hubertus Megen, a member of the Holy
See delegation to the United Nations,
defended the Church. In
a shockingly naive statement which I will
assume was borne out of innocence rather than
arrogance, he claimed that other religions
and churches were just as bad, as if that
somehow excused the Catholic Church. He said
available research showed that only 1.5 per
cent to 5 per cent of Catholic clergy were
involved in child sex abuse. Has he done his
maths? At the top end, that means one in 20
priests. And as others have pointed out,
at the bottom end that is still more than
22,000 priest sex abusers.
You can listen in English to
Keith's original statement at the UN and the
Holy See's response here.
There are few statistics to support or refute
his claims with, but the Church of England's Ben Wilson
pointed me to research by the NSPCC
which shows that under one percent of those
children abused by people outside of their
family were abused by professionals such as
clergy or teachers. There are also
some interesting figures from insurers in the
US about abuse in Protestant churches, but
nothing that is directly comparable as other
churches and religious organisations tend not
to be organised so centrally.
As Catholic Sensibility says,
it is a tough pill for the Catholics to
swallow, to be hounded on an ethical issue
by a non-religious groups. Its role as a world
moral guardian is perhaps what has kept the
Church safe from attacks like this in the past,
or perhaps because of evolving media, the
attacks have just not been noticed so much.
Frances Kissling of Catholics
for a Free Choice quoted Clare Short
accusing the Church of a 'morally destructive
course' as long as ten years ago, but the world
was not listening in the same way then.
Just to indicate how things have changed, read
this quote from one forum discussing these
issues:
'My friends mum teaches prisoners in my local
Jail at home. She met a Catholic priest there
had up for sexually abusing a minor. He got a
defrocking order signed by Cardinal Ratzinger
in Latin. When Ratzinger became pope he
complained about this and got another one
signed in English. He then sold both of them on
E-Bay.' Then there is the Rev Anne Hedges, the
Anglican cleric in a bit of hot water for
calling for prison visitors to
sign up to visit sex offenders.
As Damian notes, over at The
Other Place, this Pope has been nothing if not
ruthless in attempting to root out this vice.
It isn't appropriate to blame him, although as
Pope he can certainly expect to be asked to
take responsibility.
And the Keith Porteous Wood's of this world can
equally be expected to show ruthless
determination to bring the Church to a justice
they feel has yet to be done.
Speaking to Czech journalist Katerina
Safarikova of Respekt earlier this week
about the Pope's visit to the Czech Republic,
from which the pictures on this blog are taken,
it was interesting to learn of the differences
between that visit and the earlier three visits
there of his predecessor.
She pointed out how secular the republic is,
post-communism, but how even before, the
country was hardly at the top of the league of
devout Catholic nations. About a quarter of the
population is Catholic. At last Sunday´s mass
at Brno airport, 120 000 people came, under
half the 300 000 expected. He was still on the
front page of every newspaper, with one tabloid
headlining the visit: 'The Sins of the Holy
Father' and giving a list of Papal virtues and
otherwise.
But still, she drew a contrast with the
hundreds of thousands who turned out for JPII.
Katerina said this was because of his
predecessor's perceived role in bringing about
the fall of communism. The Czechs were still
pleased to see Pope Benedict XVI. 'But they
didn't listen to every word he said.'
I know of at least one controversial child sex
abuse case in the Birmingham archdiocese that
is due to go to appeal next year. I will be
posting more on that shortly.
The fact is, whatever the many qualities of
this Pope, of soon-to-be Archbishop Bernard
Longley, and the moral virtues of their Church,
there are a lot of angry people out there. And
they are not going to let this issue go away.
|
|
| Sunday 18th October 2009 10:42am 18 |
JohnK
39 Posts
|
An update on the petition set up by Abi Chrisopher
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to The Popes
homophobia and transphobia is not welcome in the UK. More
details
Submitted by Abi Chrisopher – Deadline to sign up
by: 25 March 2010 – Signatures: 220
|
|
| Saturday 31st October 2009 12:01pm 19 |
JohnK
39 Posts
|
Pope set for first Scottish visit in 28 years
- Secretary of State for Scotland
Jim Murphy meets Pope Benedict XVI with Cardinal Keith
O’Brien in St Peter’s Square, Rome
Michael Settle
Published on 29 Oct 2009
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home
… s-1.929233
The first papal visit to Scotland in almost 30 years
looks a certainty today after Jim Murphy had an audience with
Pope Benedict XVI at the Vatican accompanied by Cardinal Keith
O’Brien.
The strongest likelihood is that His Holiness will visit
Glasgow to celebrate an open-air Mass, possibly at Bellahouston
Park, where the late Pope John Paul II did so in 1982, or at a
football stadium, possibly either Celtic Park or Hampden Park.
After Liverpool, Glasgow has the highest proportion of Roman
Catholics in Britain.
It is also likely that the Pope will visit and celebrate Mass
in Edinburgh, again either at a park or sports stadium. An
address by the pontiff to the Scottish Parliament has also been
suggested.
Unlike his predecessor’s visit, which was pastoral, Benedict
XVI’s could be a full state visit with a stay at Buckingham
Palace. The expectation is that it will take place next
September and last three or four days.
The Scottish Secretary, who has been tasked by Prime Minister
Gordon Brown to lead the UK Government’s liaison with the
Vatican over the expected papal visit, told The Herald his
meeting with His Holiness was an extraordinary personal moment.
“It was a very moving experience. It was a beautiful thing to
be introduced to the Pope by Scotland’s cardinal at St
Peter’s,” said Mr Murphy, who is a Roman Catholic.
During the few minutes the Secretary of State spoke to Pope
Benedict, the subject of the papal visit to Britain was
discussed.
“Myself and the cardinal arrived in Rome thinking a visit to
Scotland was possible; we left thinking it was probable,” said
Mr Murphy.
Diplomatic protocol means that it is up to the Vatican to
officially confirm the visit and its details. An announcement
is due before Christmas.
Pope Benedict is also expected to visit locations in England.
Since the papal visit was mooted, the Vatican has been
inundated with requests. Birmingham, Liverpool and Oxford are
thought to be favourites.
Mr Murphy arrived with Cardinal O’Brien in Italy on Tuesday
night. He attended mass at the 400-year-old Scottish college in
Rome, which is the only place where Scottish priests are
trained.
It was celebrated by the cardinal. Also present were Francis
Campbell, the UK ambassador to Vatican City, and several
seminarians.
Yesterday morning, after an interview with Vatican radio, Mr
Murphy attended the Pope’s general weekly audience with
pilgrims and then had a personal meeting with the Holy Father
accompanied by Cardinal O’Brien.
Mr Murphy told the Pope how much the people of Britain would
look forward to a papal visit and thanked him for the Church’s
work on the issues of international development and climate
change.
Afterwards, he had a 45-minute meeting with Archbishop Fernando
Filoni, the Vatican’s Deputy Prime Minister, to discuss a papal
visit to Britain. The talks continued over lunch with Vatican
officials who deal with the Pope’s overseas visits.
In February, the PM formally invited Benedict XVI to Britain. A
month later, Mr Murphy wrote to Mr Brown, saying a visit by the
Pope to Scotland would be “appreciated by Scots”.
In 1982, Pope John Paul II made a six-day trip to Scotland; the
mass at Bellahouston Park was attended by almost 300,000
people.
At the weekend, Benedict XVI was criticised over the way the
Roman Catholic Church is trying to woo disaffected Anglicans to
Rome.
Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, said it was
unacceptable that the Pope and his Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith had excluded Dr Rowan Williams, the
current Archbishop of Canterbury, from discussions on the
issue.
|
|
| Thursday 5th November 2009 12:06am 20 |
Harry
10 Posts
|
And we should view with utter and total comtempt any gay
catholics - of whom sadly there are a few. if you now any I hope
anyone will treat them with the contempt and disdain they
deserve.
|
|
| Thursday 5th November 2009 01:29am 21 |
Jean-Paul
301 Posts
|
Harry,
Gay Catholics are not here to convert anybody. They need a Forum
to come to terms with themselves and do not respond
constructively to contempt. The RCC and its ludicrous sexual
theology deserve your contempt, and mine too.
Gays are born and indoctrinated into all sorts of homophobic
circumstances. Get the picture?
|
|
| Thursday 5th November 2009 01:44am 22 |
Harry
10 Posts
|
No I do not get your picture at all. I have no interest in
joining with gay Catholics constructively (if that means joining
constructively with their contenptible loyalty to a church which
is our fundamental enemy). There are plenty of churches which are
not hompohobic and and gay catholic must have made a choice to
remain within an anti-gay environment. I have sufficient respect
for each person's ability to think for themselves that if they
remain within the RCC then they endorse the RCC's bigotry and
contempt for us. They are, in other words, traitors. Their money
in the collection boxes helped the RCC's $0.5m to defeat gay
marriage in Maine. Each and every one of them should be ashamed
of themselves.
|
|
| Thursday 5th November 2009 07:49am 23 |
Jean-Paul
301 Posts
|
There's nothing wrong with your skill iof thinking in terms of
black and white.
An intelligent person would take a moment to consider the miasma
of details involved with a in a cradle catholics' choice to leave
the the RCC, e.g. meaningful family relationships.
Gay Jews and gay Muslims face similar complications.
Like Dale Carnegie used to say: any fool can criticize, complain
and condemn, and most fools do.
Now do you get the picture?
Instead of putting us on the defensive, why don't you tell us
where exactly did you study Law?
|
|
| Thursday 5th November 2009 08:22am 24 |
Harry
10 Posts
|
I don't know whether you count yourself as one of "us" (i.e. gay
Catholics) or not. In this day and age (and certainly in this
country) an adult gay catholic can stop going to mass without
ruining his/her family relationships and if s/he can't then s/he
needs to consider what sort of relationships s/he has. There is
quite simply no excuse. There is no middle ground.
Oriel College, Oxford.
|
|
| Thursday 5th November 2009 09:03am 25 |
Jean-Paul
301 Posts
|
Is that how you feel about gay Muslim teenagers who are hung in
public in Iran and Iraq? Or whose assholes are glued shut while
they are force-fed a liquid to induce diarrhea?Imaging dying like
that? I cn show you footage, but I wouldn't want to spoil your
tea time.
They had no middle ground? No excuse?
Moreover, it's difficult to believe that "your country" ever
succedded in passing the Wolfenden Report when you look at the
way the Equality Bill is being mis-handled by a bunch of
Neanderthals.
And where do you get off telling gay catholics/christians what
they can or cannot do? Fifth column indeed. What have you been
reading? The DaVinci Code?
I don't identify as gay; I am a human being of homosexual
orientation with equal civil rights...and so are you.
Moreover, anyone has the right to practice a religion. That
right, sir, is something that we should be prepared to die for in
a democratic society, otherwise, it's none of your
business.
Have you ever heard of finesse, or does Oriel College specialize
in puting out fundamentalist fanatics like the Taliban? That's
what you sound like...laying down the 10 commandements of how to
be gay in the 21st century. Utter drivel.
|
|
